When Elizabeth Meriwether consists all six episodes of “Die for sex” Podcast In a meeting, she fell in love with her unfiltered honesty. Released by Wonderry in early 2020, crowned podcast Candidly Molly Kochan’s sexual awakening after being diagnosed with metastasis cancer in stage IV. Her best friend, Nikki Boyer, was by her side for all heights and lowness.
“I was so taken by the tone in it, how fun it was in the middle of some of the worst things that can happen to a person and the friendship in the heart of it,” Meriwether said. The Emmy-Nominated Creator of “The Dropout” Recruited Kim Rosenstock, whom she had worked with on Fox’s “New Girl.” “We have all seen stories about people who are sick and taken care of, but something about (Kochan) healing while he dies felt like this incredible, incongruous thing,” Rosenstock said.
Soon the FX Limited series – with Michelle Williams at the top of the conversation – became reality.
Like Meriwether and Rosenstock, Williams was moved by Kokan’s story And her band with Boyer. Although they had only a few scripts in their hand, it felt Emmy-winning, five times the Oscar-nominated actress Kochan deep in her legs and signed to star and executive products. “Finally what I realized I was drawn to was the courage,” Williams said. “And (I asked) myself, would I get this courage if I got a diagnosis? Can I be so bold and original with how I wanted to spend the time I had left?”
Molly is a character that switches between tragedy and comedy, often within the same scene. Michelle is one of the best actors at Toeing That Line. Was she always your first choice?
Kim Rosenstock I don’t think we ever dreamed that we would get Michelle Williams, to be honest.
Elizabeth Meriwether I didn’t even know she was real. I was like, oh, she is an actor found in this actress alternative universe. (Laugh) Yes, she was our first choice. When she met us (over Zoom 2021), it was immediately clear that it had come under her skin – how she talked about Molly, how she talked about the podcast, how she talked about her voice. It was deep. Then she became pregnant and had a child, and she couldn’t do it anymore. But we continued to move on because we still had a large number of scripts to write.
Michelle, what made you return to this role?
Michelle Williams We were in constant communication. We were really involved in Minutiae at that time, talked about stage after stage and about the work ahead. I became pregnant and we briefly considered the opportunity to use digital technology to erase my stomach, which would have made blockage of the sex scenes so interesting. So many things (would have) been impossible. After going through a postpartum period, I called my agents and asked what had happened to the show. I was so relieved that it was still an opportunity for me.
Molly has unique sexual experiences in the series, some more upsetting than others – namely the guy dressed in the dog Onesie and the guy whose fetish is to pee. What did you want to reveal about her through these sexcapades?
Williams Her lack of assessment. That she was curious, for herself and for others, what can feel good. And so I love this journey that she continues, where she meets these men in situations with incredible openness and radical acceptance of who they are and what their bodies can be prone to, as a way to discover what feels good to her. The world is so full of assessment and being able to close a door and offer some compassion, acceptance, stimulation and pleasure, it is a beautiful and healing experience to give to another person.
Was it an account of Molly from the podcast that felt too furious to remember?
Rosenstock If anything, we wish we could have included more. It was never something we felt as if we would not want to show. It was more, how do we show this in a way that feels honest and respectful and make sure that gender is never the joke – that we never make fun of what people like to do, that humor comes from the characters?
Meriwether If the scene didn’t taught her anything, we didn’t include it. We had these incredibly brave guest actors. We had Michelle, we had major directors and an intimacy coordinator, and we tried to keep what lived in the podcast alive on the set as well.
Michelle, you ever had a moment where you thought, I don’t know if I can pull off this scene?
Williams No, because the spirit that we would move forward in felt so crucial and so present, I just wanted more. She is trying to get to something. All these meetings on the road take her to the enlightenment she searches for the time she has left. They are all teachers who lead her and root after her and help her find this last stop on the train.
“Dying for sex”, if anything, was Molly and Nikki’s love story. For me, it was the central relationship under these eight sections.
Meriwether For us, the love story between Nikki and Molly was the central (love story) all the time. We start with them, we end up with it. Without Nikki’s friendship, Molly would not have had the safe home base to continue coming back to which allows her to continue to launch further and further out in this dark, perhaps scary territory, risky territory (AV) that handles her own trauma (and) to have these sexual adventures. But the fact that she knows she can continue to come back to Nikki (and) has Nikki’s love and support is what allows her to continue to expand in such a fantastic way. It was always the love story between Nikki and Molly. And we were so lucky to have the incredible Jenny Slate who played Nikki, another huge gift for us. I can’t imagine anyone else playing that part, except Jenny.
Williams It’s such a beautiful way to think about it. It is their love for each other – and it goes in both directions – that allows them to make their own difficult, brave things because they have a soft place to land.
Michelle, how did you arouse that friendship with Jenny?
Williams It feels like a great driving from the moment we met, helped and abolished by this flawless material and the spirit of the real Nikki and Molly who went through us. The truth is that (Jenny) moves to Brooklyn, so there were love stories on the screen and off the screen, and this one has a very happy ending.
I found myself laughing a lot during the first half, but I was not prepared to cry as much as I did in the last episodes. How did you calibrate the mountain and the roller coaster with emotions that Molly goes through?
Rosenstock We wanted the feeling at the end of the podcast where you are open, you think about your entire life and you cry, but you are still hopeful, happy and laughing. We stopped thinking about it when it comes to genre or tone, and that was: What feels like the most truthful, honest thing at this moment? What does the story need? What does the character need? And not: Is it comedy? Is it drama? Let’s not ask us what the rules are; Let’s just do what feels right.
Williams It was all on the side, baby. When you have written like this, it is easy to learn. Sometimes you look at your lines and you are, I can’t get it in, it won’t go in. And that’s because something rings untrue. I try not to make so many jokes about putting things in my mouth, but that’s really the feeling! (Laugh)
Is there part of Michelle’s performance that affected you the most?
Meriwether The scene (in section 5) with Sissy (Spacek, who plays Molly’s mother) where she does not remember the words because of her “chemo brain” was especially extraordinary. In section 3, her scene in the hospital bed where she blames her body to get (sicker). I couldn’t believe how fast and easy she navigated in the complicated feelings in the stage and then managed to turn on a penny and make it so fun.
Rosenstock It was a moment when Michelle was on the bathroom floor. I texted Liz, “somehow this breaks my heart and looks at Michelle’s foot moving up and down as she calls her husband.” There is not a moment that is not fascinating and interesting and does 800 things at once. That’s exactly what Michelle does.
Speaking of section 5, it was a crucial moment for Molly and her mother, Gail, where they finally acknowledged earlier trauma And the abuse Molly endured. It felt like a weight, metaphorically, lifted. First, how did you land Sissy Spacek and how important was it to get the dynamic dish?
Meriwether It was exactly the same as Michelle. It was like “Sissy Spacek is interested”, and we were like “What?” Then she came on the phone and she was already in it. She talked about it from a place where it had already entered her and it spoke to her and there were questions you get when you were filming. She is also someone who normally does not work with people she has not worked with a million (times). She is a legend. It was impassable.
Williams It was astonishing when I heard her name and I think some of me will always remain locked in time in the beautiful scene that I got to play with her. I left a little bit of myself there with her as something I can visit to lock her eyes with her, there is such an in -depth experience for me. I am so grateful for that and I can’t believe it happened.
You know, when Liz, Kim and myself first started talking about this (show), I knew that we three liked it but it is such a special taste that I was not sure it would be for everyone. And I could never have imagined caliber for people who would come on board. When Rob (DeLaney) said yes to playing someone named Neighbour Guy. When Sissy, when Jenny (said yes), I thought, oh, maybe it’s not just that we three are strange. This must be as special as I think it is because there are artists with such skill and depth, and they want to try this. Okay, this is a real thing.
Michelle, is there a scene that you personally blown away?
Williams It was every scene. I can’t believe I can do this. I cannot believe that they created this tension between drama and comedy with this spine of truth. How do they pull this script away after script after script? And These were also written while we shot. Everything attracted me to pick up (the scripts) and go to work every day.
What have you removed from doing this show?
Meriwether So much. An estimate of how hard people have to fight for health and happiness and gratitude for the friendship that has shaped my life.
Williams To be open and present to hear how people respond to this and how they relate to it and their personal stories they give to it. I am so moved to be in this position to see first and foremost how it reason and what it can mean for someone.
Rosenstock We are all in this daily grinding, but if you can go back for a second and ask yourself, who are the people who fill you with joy and make you feel like the best version of yourself? How can you be around these people a little more? It is amazing to see how Molly, who (lived) this, and Nikki, who helped her document it, could have such a gigantic rippling effect. It is very inspiring and it gives me hope.
A version of this The story first ran in The Limited Series & TV Movies issue of Thewrap’s Awards Magazine.
Read more from the question of limited series and TV films here.
